Bonafide Muscle: 1965 Pontiac 2+2 Buyer's Guide

Pontiac expanded its sporty car offerings for 1964 with the GTO and 2+2 options. The Goat drew more attention and buyers, likely due to the new Le Mans' A-body on which it was based, its included high-performance 389 four-barrel engine, and its price. Conversely, the new 2+2 was essentially a trim option that added bucket seats, upscale side panels, and a console to the Catalina. Engine upgrades were available for the 2+2 over its base two-barrel 389, but they cost more.

For 1965, however, the 2+2 became a bonafide muscle car. Wearing a revised GM B-body semi-fastback shape, the 2+2 option delivered a 421-cu.in. engine, dual exhausts, three-speed manual transmission, Hurst shifter, 3.42:1 rear gears, heavy-duty suspension, bucket seats, upgraded upholstery, carpet, emblems, "Decor" louvers, pinstripes, lower-body molding, and wheel covers. It added $418.54 to the price of the Catalina sports coupe or $397.04 to the convertible.

ENGINE

The 421 V-8 produced 338 hp and had a 10.5:1 compression ratio. A 356-hp option included a trio of Rochester two-barrel carburetors, the required intake manifold, a large dual-snorkel air cleaner, and a 10.75:1 compression ratio. Producing 376 hp, the extra-cost 421 H.O. Tri-Power featured a more aggressive camshaft, cooling fan clutch, and long-branch exhaust manifolds.

DECODING

Since the 2+2 was an option and not a separate series for 1965 (like it was for 1966), it's not identified in the VIN via its own model number and instead retains that of the Catalina.

The firewall-mounted body data plate includes the model year ("65"), division code ("2"), series number ("52"), body style number ("37" or "67"), assembly plant code, body number for the plant (it does not match the digits in the VIN), interior trim code, upper and lower body paint codes, and convertible or Cordova top color codes. A number denotes the month and a letter indicates the week for the build date. Some plants included a few option listings, but it seems that the 2+2's W51 code wasn't one of them. We've seen it on a build sheet, but not all cars got one and few that did still have it.

Except for some emblems, the front body parts, bumper, and trim items aren't currently reproduced, so keep that in mind when checking their condition on a prospective 2+2 purchase.

A VIN and Information Packet, $85 from PHS Automotive Services' (phs-online.com) will confirm whether the prospect is a real 2+2 or not. You'll be emailed a copy of the dealer order form with the extra-cost items chosen for that car highlighted, as well as a letter decoding the options, a copy of the factory invoice or billing history card, and other 1965 information.

To identify the engine, a two-letter code was stamped on the front passenger side of the block, just under the cylinder head deck. Those that begin with "W" are for manual transmission applications and "Y" are backed by the automatic. The 338-hp engine codes are WG and YH, the 356-hp codes are WH and YJ, and the 376-hp engines are WJ and YK.

WHAT TO LOOK FOR

To gain insight into the 1965 2+2, we contacted Jack Anderson of Delaware, who bought his first Pontiac back in 1963 and has owned many since. He purchased his 1965 2+2 (not shown) in 2007 and transformed it into a multiple POCI Champion Award and AACA Senior Grand National Award winner, as well as a 13-second F.A.S.T. car. Jack started the Pontiac 2+2 Registry (pontiac2plus2registry.com) in 2010 and attained a charter to start the 2+2 Chapter of POCI in 2018, of which he's the president.

BODY: Examine the body for signs of previous collision damage and repair. The alignment of the body panels and trim can offer clues, but panel gaps weren't perfect on any mass-produced car. Often, bolt-on panels were exchanged due to rust rather than a traffic altercation.

Areas closest to ground level tend to rust first, such as the lower front fenders, rockers, doors, floors, and rear quarter panels and wheelhouses. Jack adds, "Check the bottom of rear window, especially if it has a vinyl roof."

Chrome-plated rocker covers and air cleaner were part of the 2+2 option. Though this 421 was originally equipped with a four-barrel carburetor, it has since been retrofitted with Tri-Power.

ENGINE: Pontiac V-8s are durable when cared for properly. Nevertheless, over time the rope-style rear main seal can develop a leak, so check at the back of the oil pan. If the seal is bad (and not the pan gasket), it will require replacement and considerable labor to install it. Jack says, "Viton seals are available to replace the rope type." He continues, "If the engine has more than 70,000 miles, ask if the timing chain and water pump have been changed."

The four-bolt rocker covers can also seep oil, and coolant may have dripped onto the valley pan from where the intake seals to the engine's front cover. Check all fluids and scan the bay for obvious issues like crispy wiring. Note the engine's idle quality, listen for odd sounds, and ask the seller about them. Indications of internal engine oil or coolant control issues can be revealed in blue or white smoke from the tailpipes.

DRIVETRAIN: The Turbo Hydra- Matic and the manual gearboxes are generally trouble-free, but parts can wear over decades. Plenty of pros can rebuild them, and kits are available to do so.

A new Salisbury-type Pontiac rear end with an 8.875-inch 12-bolt ring gear and 10-bolt cover was used in the full-size cars beginning in 1965, but it was different from the Chevy 12-bolt. Jack explains, "It's strong but can be problematic if something breaks because, to my knowledge, no one is currently making replacement parts."

The optional wheel, commonly referred to as "eight-lug" outside of Pontiac, featured an exposed finned aluminum brake drum (with cast-iron liner) that dissipated heat faster to reduce brake fade. It was secured to a 14 x 6-inch steel rim via eight chrome-plated lug nuts. A decorative center cap and trim ring were added.

CHASSIS: Though Jack relates that, "Serious frame rust is pretty rare in these cars," you'll still want to check for it just in case, as well as for signs of collision repair. Also examine the front and rear suspension for issues like worn bushings and bent or damaged parts.

Jack reports, "The front lower ball joints for 1965 aren't replaceable, so you had to buy another whole A-arm when a ball joint wore out, but they aren't available new anymore. The 1966 A-arm has the same overall design, and its ball joint can be replaced, so I bought a used set. Then I can install new ball joints and swap them into my '65 when the existing ones wear out."

If you're considering a 2+2 with the coveted eight-lug wheel option, Jack says, "Inspect for cracks in the cast-iron liner of each drum, and for corrosion between it and the aluminum hub. If a white powder can be seen between them, the dissimilar metals are reacting to one another and the drums should be relined to ensure safe braking. There are companies that offer that service."

INTERIOR: Wear and tear on the soft surfaces and most broken or missing parts will be obvious. Also check every system and switch to make sure they all work. If not, figure the repair cost into your offer. Look under the dash to inspect the wiring and the fuse box for potential problems.

Jack adds, "The Deluxe two-tone steering wheel with translucent plastic rim often cracks and it's expensive to have remolded. I've found that the optional Custom Sports simulated wood wheel, which is reproduced, is considerably cheaper to buy compared to having the Deluxe wheel restored."

New rear exterior parts aren't offered either. POCI 2+2 Chapter President Jack Anderson notes that the metal trim panel between the taillamps is often pitted, and having it restored (depending upon how bad it is) or finding a better replacement can be costly.

TEST DRIVE

Test the 2+2 on streets with curves and some hills, as well as on the highway. The engine should accelerate smoothly without hesitation or weird noises, the transmission should shift positively, the rear end should remain quiet, and the car shouldn't overheat. A car of this age isn't going to steer, handle, and stop like a newer vehicle, yet it should at least operate competently.

RESTORATION AND MODIFICATION

Many (but not all) interior items are reproduced, as are floorpans and braces. However, except for rockers and a new window-to-trunk panel, new body panels aren't currently made, so repairing the existing part, or finding a used or NOS replacement, will be required.

Myriad engine components are available for stock rebuilds. For more power, higher flowing four-barrel carbs, aluminum intakes, bolt-on fuel injection, aluminum cylinder heads, headers, roller cams, stroker kits, forged pistons, forged-steel connecting rods and crankshafts, aftermarket Pontiac blocks, and more can be purchased.

Stock manual and automatic transmissions can be rebuilt. Conversion kits developed to install later-model overdrive automatic and manuals into GTOs can likely be adapted for the 2+2 with a bit of ingenuity.

Front disc brake upgrades from 11-inch to at least 13-inch rotors are also available. A selection of stock replacement brake, suspension, and steering parts are offered as well. Revised springs, upgraded shocks, a larger front anti-roll bar, and the addition of a rear bar can improve handling, as can larger wheels and wider, modern-compound radial tires.

The optional tachometer was redesigned for 1965 and retained the adjustable redline feature. A red line was added to the face partway through the model year.

CONCLUSION

The 1965 2+2 arrived as interest in the GTO was skyrocketing. Nevertheless, for fans of high-powered fullsize models imbued with a muscular image, the 421 2+2 delivered on all counts. Hardtops still draw decent prices, but you'll pay more for a convertible and anything with a Tri- Power. Try to avoid project cars that require the replacement of multiple body panels, since hunting for used and NOS ones will get expensive.

ENGINE

The 421 block featured a 4.09-inch bore and four-bolt main caps. A 4.00-inch-stroke cast crankshaft, rods, and pistons comprised the reciprocating assembly. Cylinder heads had 1.92/1.66-inch valves, HD springs, and 1.50:1 rocker arms directed by a hydraulic cam with 273/289-degrees advertised duration. A Carter AFB carb, cast-iron intake and exhaust manifolds, and a breaker-point ignition system were used. The optional Tri-Power H.O.'s 288/302-degrees advertised duration cam was new for 1965, and was also used in the 389 Tri-Power GTO.

TRANSMISSION & AXLES

A three-speed manual transmission was standard and featured a Hurst shifter. The "long tail" wide-ratio M20 four-speed manual was optional, as was a close-ratio M21 (with 4.11:1 gears). The Turbo Hydra-Matic three-speed with 2.48, 1.48, and 1.00:1 ratios was the new and improved optional automatic for 1965. A 3.42 gearset in a new Pontiac 12-bolt Salisbury-type rear axle was included with the 2+2 option, but 3.23 gears were installed behind the automatic. Additional ratios were offered with all transmissions, and Safe- T-Track (limited slip) was optional.

Bucket seats were standard. The steering wheel cover shown is not stock.

INTERIOR

The interior was updated for 1965, and the Morrokide upholstery for the seat and door panels was upgraded for the 2+2. Optional temperature and oil pressure gauges could be added to the revised instrument panel on each side of the horizontal speedometer. The included fuel gauge and ammeter were housed in round bezels at the center of the panel and an extra-cost clock could join them. An optional tach could be mounted on the upper left of the dash pad, and an accessory vacuum gauge could be added to the console.

CHASSIS

The new perimeter frame featured a 121-inch wheelbase. Unequal-length control arms, 90-lb-in ride rate coil springs, and a .875-inch anti-roll bar comprised the front suspension, while a four-link setup with 125-lb-in ride rate coils was in the rear. HD shocks were fore and aft. Optional power steering reduced effort and turns lock-to-lock. Finned 11-inch cast-iron drum brakes, 14 x 6-inch steel wheels, and 8.25 x 14 bias-ply tires were standard, and the track measured 63 inches front, 64 inches rear.

BODY

At 214.6 inches long, 79.6 inches wide and 54.4 inches high, the body was new from stem to stern, but it still retained its Pontiac identity with split grilles and stacked headlamps. The new fenders drew rearward at the sides of the headlamp bezels for a look of motion. Its curved side windows and Coke bottle body shape was more fluid than the 1964 design, and the sloped roofline made every Catalina hardtop look sporty. Its tail had a massive-yet-integrated bumper, and subtle taillamps were split by ribbed bright trim.

PRODUCTION

In a model year when the Pontiac Motor Division won the Motor Trend magazine Car of the Year Award, 11,521 2+2s were built. Production eclipsed the 7,998 built for 1964, the 6,383 for 1966, and 1,768 for 1967.

WHAT TO PAY*

Prices were compiled from popular value guides and recent auction sales.

*Add 25 percent for 356-hp engine; add 30 percent for 376-hp engine

When the extra-cost console was specified with the manual transmissions, its design was different than the one used with the automatic.

REPRODUCTION PARTS PRICES

Bucket seat covers (pair):$329

Door panels (pair): $349

Floorpan, front and rear (RH and LH, each): $115

Custom Sports simulated wood wheel (complete assembly): $469

Engine wiring harness: $160

Muncie four-speed rebuild kit: $199

Tri-Power carburetors (remanufactured, set of three): $1,895

Chrome rocker cover (pair): $129

Convertible top kit with glass window and pads: $465

Four-barrel chrome air cleaner assembly: $189

Rear window-to-trunk panel: $150